It never ceases to amaze me how the WT and its fanatical members keep on denying that there is not any pressure from the organization to do this or that or not do this or that. Below is part of a story that tells us how the WT FORCES people like the Williams sisters to not vote even theough they support Obama.
Tennis star SERENA WILLIAMS is rooting for BARACK OBAMA to become America's next president, even though her religion forbids her from voting.
Williams and her sister Venus are among several million Jehovah's Witnesses in the U.S. who are forced to remain politically neutral and restricted from taking part in elections.
Contact Music News
http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/williams%20cant%20vote%20-%20but%20hopes%20obama%20wins_1085641
False Dates Slideshow
Tuesday, November 4, 2008
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28 comments:
This just gets so old. It's laughable, all these accusations.
In truth, it comes down to an individuals heart, not an organization. Every individual's heart will be read by Jehovah, not the organization. So, what is in a person's heart is what he IS.
I had no desire to go and cast another vote, since I cast the only vote I needed to, back 30 years ago, for Jehovah's goverment to take care of the problems here on earth. In over 30 years has NEVER been about, "Ooooh, the organization won't let me." I have faith of what Jehovah promises.
And as for the Williams', it appears from what is published, they are not forced to conform to Bible standards. They do as they please, dress as they please and act as they please. And they along with the rest of mankind, Jehovah will judge who has measured up to his standards.
Denise
I agree with Denise here.
No one forces anyone to do anything or not do it. What is done in the voting booth is private. No one knows whether anyone is voting for or against anyone, anything or not at all. And with mail and absentee balloting, no one can know.
So where is this pressure?
And why does what Serena Williams does or does not do reflect on a religion?
Denise said...
This just gets so old. It's laughable, all these accusations.
In truth, it comes down to an individuals heart, not an organization. Every individual's heart will be read by Jehovah, not the organization. So, what is in a person's heart is what he IS.
===================================
Here's where you're mistaken about the decision to vote being a matter of free will. This is what the elder's manual 'Pay Attention to All the Flock' book says about how to handle one of Jehovah's Witnesses who participates in an election...
Jehovah's Witnesses maintain neutrality with regard to
the political and military affairs of the nations . (John
17 :16; rs pp. 269-76)
They do not interfere with what others do as to voting in
political elections, running for or campaigning for politi-
cal offices, joining nonneutral organizations, shouting
political slogans, and so forth . (w86 9/1 pp . 19-20; w68
6/1 pp . 351-2)
Since true dedicated Christians are "no part of the world,"
if a member of the congregation unrepentantly pursues a
course in violation of his Christian neutrality, he thereby
disassociates himself from the neutral Christian congrega-
tion . (John 15 :19 ; 17 :14-16 ; w82 1/15 p . 31)
Elders should talk to one known to be contemplating
taking such a course, since he may be doing so in
ignorance . (Ps . 119 :67; Gal. 6 :1 ; 1 Tim. 1 :13)
If he disregards the help proffered and pursues a
course in violation of Christian neutrality, a commit-
tee should send the facts substantiating the disassocia-
tion to the branch office on the S-77 and S-79 forms .
An announcement is usually made that the individual
has disassociated himself from the congregation, and
the person should be told orally about his position.
If for some extenuating reasons no announcement is
made, persons in the congregation who might be visit-
ed by the disassociated person may be informed private-
ly . The individual should be treated as one who is
disfellowshipped . See Unit 5 (a), pages 101-2 .
This is not free will. A JW who votes will be disfellowshipped which means none of their family and friends who are also JWs can associate with them.
What you are experiencing is called thought coercion. In all forms of thought coercion the immediate objective is to force other people to act as if their basic choice rules were identical to those of the coercing party. However, this mere conformity of “outward” behavior is but a first step. The true and final aim of thought coercion is to induce a change in the victim’s objective function itself, i.e. the basic set of values and rules by which the victim determines his or her own choice among the alternatives of any feasible set. Thought coercion is thus generally meant to be only temporary. Once the desired change in values has been brought about, the victim is expected to conform spontaneously, without any need for further coercion.
You may think it doesn't matter that JWs get disfellowshipped if they vote because you don't want to do it anyway, but really you're in that final stage of thought coercion. This is just another control technique the Watchtower Society uses to maintain control over their adherents.
It's a good sign that you're reading this blog, Denise. The Watchtower Society doesn't want you to read this information because they want you to think that they have divine backing. The truth, the actual truth, is that they are running a high-control organization that pushes its members to distribute their literature under the constant expectation of the coming day of Armageddon. A day that the Watchtower Society has incorrectly predicted over and over since its inception in 1879... sometimes using pyramids as evidence for their 'correct', dispensationalist interpretation of the scriptures.
The truth is that Jehovah is not going to murder over 99% of the human population on earth including innocent babies in their sinning mother's arms so that Jehovah's Witnesses can live in a global park with lots of friendly lions, bears and pandas to pet.
Think about it Denise, really think about the scenario that the Watchtower Society is asking you to believe. The core doctrine of the gentile times is based on a prophesy that was already fulfilled when Cyrus allowed the Jews to rebuild the temple. That was it. There is no 'second fulfillment' of this prophesy. If you read the link about pyramids above, you'll see that originally, C. T. Russel based his prediction about 1914 on the time span between the death of Jacob to the death of Jesus and then taking an equal span of time after the death of Jesus to 1914. It's a completely arbitrary calculation designed to appeal to the natural human tendency to believe that there is something inherently special about our own generation.
Armageddon is not going to happen in either of our lifetimes, Denise. That's actually very good news. The bad news is that there are still people who believe that Jehovah is poised to commit this mass-murder very soon and that they might be murdered too if they aren't doing all they can in the ministry.
From the style of your writing, YOU are the one who uses thought coercion. Smooth, grooming, and twisting things to fit your agenda. It's funny your words,
"The truth is that Jehovah is not going to murder over 99% of the human population on earth including innocent babies in their sinning mother's arms so that Jehovah's Witnesses can live in a global park with lots of friendly lions, bears and pandas to pet."
Reminded me of the conversation between Satan and Eve in the garden of eden. Genesis 3:1-5:
"Now the serpent proved to be the most cautious of all the wild beasts of the field that Jehovah God had made. So it began to say to the woman: “Is it really so that God said YOU must not eat from every tree of the garden?” 2 At this the woman said to the serpent: “Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat. 3 But as for [eating] of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘YOU must not eat from it, no, YOU must not touch it that YOU do not die.’” 4 At this the serpent said to the woman: “YOU positively will not die. 5 For God knows that in the very day of YOUR eating from it YOUR eyes are bound to be opened and YOU are bound to be like God, KNOWING good and bad.”
And we all know what has happened because of that. So nice try, your not as slick as you would like to think.
I owe Jehovah my loyalty and much more. He has never abandoned me and there have been many times in my life that he answered prayers, when the outlook looked very grim.
Unfortunately, in society people rail against requirements of any sort, because it infringes on their "RIGHTS". No one wants to be held accountable for their behavior. Not much different from a small child who isn't getting his way. Well so sorry that's life, throughout society their are groups/organizations/clubs that have a code of conduct that if violated will cause the violater to be removed. If you don't agree with the code of conduct, go somewhere else.
When I chose to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I dedicated my life to Jehovah. His son Jesus did the same. When he was here on earth and he could have been made king on earth at that time, but said his kingdom was not of this world. Jesus did not get involved with the politics of the day. He is the role model for Christians.
Sorry to disappoint you, but my mind is not changed and neither will my life.
Denise, How is my statement thought coercion? There is no accompanying threat that goes along with it. If you decide to believe it, I'm not going to tell your friends and family not to talk to you like the Watchtower Society will if you decide not to believe it.
You do agree that is what Jehovah's Witnesses believe, don't you? That Jehovah is going to kill most of the people on the planet and then the surviving Jehovah's Witnesses will turn the earth into a paradise where your children will be able to hug lions and bears.
Just in case any non-Jehovah's Witnesses are reading, here are some quotes from the Watchtower Society's publications.
*** w96 2/15 p. 18 par. 23 Joyful Now and Forever ***
Then literal torrents of water will gush through the desert. We will both see the surging water and hear the bubbling sound. We will be able to walk there and touch the green grass and papyrus plants. It truly will be Paradise restored. What of the joy to be around a lion or other such animal without fear? We do not have to begin describing that, for all of us have relished the scene already.
***
*** w96 8/1 p. 21 Keeping Eyes and Heart Fixed on the Prize ***
I loved the booklet Home and Happiness, which I kept with me at all times, even keeping it under my pillow while I slept. Over and over, I begged Mother to read it to me, until I knew it by heart. Its back had a picture of a little girl in Paradise with a lion. I said that I was the little girl. That picture has helped me to keep my eyes on the prize of life in God’s new world.
***
*** w83 11/15 p. 30 par. 18 Abound in Hope! ***
In that earthly Paradise, all humans (including the resurrected ones on earth) who obediently avail themselves of Jesus’ ransom sacrifice will enjoy blessings like those described by Isaiah and other prophets concerning spiritual Israel. Happily, Jesus’ promise to the sympathetic thief on the tree at Calvary will have its marvelous fulfillment. (Luke 23:43) “The glory of Jehovah, the splendor of our God,” will be seen literally in the blossoming of wilderness and desert, and in the healing of blind, deaf, lame and dumb persons. As that peaceful Paradise comes to extend earth wide, why, “even the lion will eat straw just like the bull,” as no doubt it did in Eden and in the ark of Noah’s day. No one will “do any harm or cause any ruin” in Paradise.—Genesis 1:29, 30; Isaiah 11:6-9; 35:1-7; 65:25.
***
By the way, the scripture in Isaiah 11 where the "lion will eat straw" is a metaphor. Isaiah was using this imagery to emphasize that there would be peace and security, not that we would be able to hug lions literally.
*** w81 6/1 p. 8 The Better Choice—Life in a Paradise Earth ***
If you would be pleased to exercise dominion over animals, not with guns or whips or bars, but through love and mutual trust; if you long for the time when the bear and the calf will lie down together, the leopard and the kid will feed together, when the lion will eat straw like the ox, and if you would like to see the day when all these animals will docilely follow the leading of a little child, then you would like the paradise earth. “They will not do any harm or cause any ruin in all my holy mountain,” is the promise of Jehovah.—Isa. 11:9.
***
*** pe chap. 19 p. 164 par. 16 After Armageddon, a Paradise Earth ***
16 After Armageddon another miracle will add to the paradise conditions. Animals such as lions, tigers, leopards and bears, which now can be dangerous, will be at peace. How fine then to take a walk in the woods and to be joined for a while by a lion at your side, and perhaps later by a big bear! Never again will anybody need to fear another living thing.
***
Denise, how am I 'twisting things to fit my agenda'? I'm quoting directly from the publications of the Society. It's not surprising that you should take this stance for two reasons. First, this is the kind of speech the Watchtower Society uses to keep its members from considering the facts.
*** w94 7/1 p. 12 par. 12 At Which Table Are You Feeding? ***
Yes, apostates publish literature that resorts to distortions, half-truths, and outright falsehood. They even picket Witness conventions, trying to trap the unwary. Hence, it would be a dangerous thing to allow our curiosity to move us to feed on such writings or to listen to their abusive speech! While we might not think it a risk for us personally, the hazard remains. Why? For one thing, some of the apostate literature presents falsehoods by means of “smooth talk” and “counterfeit words.” (Romans 16:17, 18; 2 Peter 2:3) What would you expect from the table of demons? And while the apostates may also present certain facts, these are usually taken out of context with the goal of drawing others away from the table of Jehovah. All their writings simply criticize and tear down! Nothing is upbuilding.
***
Notice how any dissent is demonized? It's true that people who are critical of the Watchtower Society... criticize them, but that does not mean that those critics are not genuinely concerned about Jehovah's Witnesses.
(1 John 4:1) 4 Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.
Does the Watchtower Society encourage its members to 'test every inspired expression'?
*** km 9/07 p. 3 Question Box ***
Does “the faithful and discreet slave” endorse independent groups of Witnesses who meet together to engage in Scriptural research or debate?—Matt. 24:45, 47.
No, it does not
***
This is information control. Those who control the information control the person. In a mind control cult any information from outside the cult is considered evil, especially if it is opposing the cult. Members are told not to read it or believe it. Only information supplied by the cult is true. One cult labels any information against it as "persecution" or "spiritual pornography", another cult calls it "apostate literature" and will expel you from the group if you are caught with it. Cults train their members to instantly destroy any critical information given to them, and to not even entertain the thought that the information could be true.
Common sense tells us that a person who does not consider all information may make an unbalanced decision. Filtering the information available or trying to discredit it not on the basis of how true it is, but rather on the basis of how it supports the party line, is a common control method used throughout history.
The Watchtower Society is very vocal about information control...
*** w97 4/15 p. 30 Do You Eat Well Spiritually? ***
Spiritual Contamination
Besides the threat of spiritual starvation, there is another danger we need to be aware of—the type of food that we eat may itself be contaminated. Taking in teachings infected by dangerous demonic ideas can poison us just as easily as can eating physical food that has been tainted with germs or toxins. (Colossians 2:8) It is not always easy to spot poisonous food. “Food,” says one authority, “may sometimes appear quite wholesome and yet harbour pathogenic bacteria.” So we do well to examine the source of our figurative food, bearing in mind that some literature, such as apostate writings, may be infected by the introduction of unscriptural teachings and philosophies. Some food manufacturers even use misleading labeling to deceive their customers as to the contents of their product. We certainly can expect Satan, the great deceiver, to do the same. Make sure, therefore, that you get such figurative food from a reliable source, so that you stay “healthy in the faith.”—Titus 1:9, 13.
Not all criticism is bad, especially when the organization being criticized has so much to hide.
Secondly, it's not surprising that you would take the position that I'm 'twisting things to fit my own agenda' because you are experiencing cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance is the discomfort a person feels when face with two opposing models of reality. A person experiencing cognitive dissonance has a few options to eliminate this discomfort.
* They can ignore the fact that the two models are mutually exclusive.
* They can examine all relevant evidence and decide which model is accurate.
* They can let someone else tell them which model is accurate.
If you're not testing every inspired expression, you're in the third category. Denise, you have to ask yourself why so many people call the Watchtower Society's organization a cult? Why does the Watchtower Society spend so much time saying that they are not a cult? One of the first things a cult will tell you is that they are not a cult. The only way to determine whether an organization is a cult is to examine their policies and procedures. If they use cult control techniques, then they are a cult. Denise, you need to ask yourself why the Watchtower Society uses all of the techniques listed in the link above?
I never made the claim that I was 'slick'. Those are your words, not mine. What I'm talking about is the exact opposite of what the serpent told Eve. I'm telling you that you positively will die in this system. There is zero percent chance that Armageddon will arrive in your lifetime. There is absolutely nothing special about the time we live in.
It's usually at this point in my conversations with Jehovah's Witnesses that they say something like - "So what's the point of being a Christian? According to you not thing we do matters."
This is not what I'm saying. There's nothing wrong with being dedicated to Jehovah and Jesus. There's nothing wrong with adhering to Christian values. In fact there's nothing wrong with your position at all. So what's that problem? The problem is that the Watchtower Society has inserted itself in between you and Jehovah.
The Watchtower society claims to be 'God's sole mouthpiece' repeatedly in it's publications.
*** w67 10/1 p. 590 par. 19 Finding Freedom with Jehovah’s Visible Organization ***
19 Evidences are now conclusive that Jesus Christ was enthroned in heaven in 1914 C.E. and that he accompanied Jehovah to his temple in 1918 C.E., when judgment began with the house of God. (1 Pet. 4:17) After cleansing those belonging to this house who were alive on earth, Jehovah poured out his spirit upon them and assigned them the responsibility of serving as his sole visible channel, through whom alone spiritual instruction was to come. Those who recognize Jehovah’s visible theocratic organization, therefore, must recognize and accept this appointment of the “faithful and discreet slave” and be submissive to it.
***
(As a side note, the year 1918 is never supported by scripture. The Watchtower Society simply asserts this year as significant over and over.
"The historical facts show that 1919 was the year when the remnant on earth of the 144,000 Kingdom heirs began to be freed from Great Babylon. In that year the message of God's established kingdom began to be preached from house to house and publicly by Jehovah's Christian witnesses in a fearless way. This preaching of the Kingdom as established in 1914 was in fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy in Matthew 24:14: 'This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations."
Babylon the Great Has Fallen!, 1963, p. 515.
What 'historical facts'? They never answer this question.)
*** w07 4/1 p. 24 pars. 12-13 Loyal to Christ and His Faithful Slave ***
12 A fundamental reason for showing proper respect for the faithful slave class is that by so doing, we are in fact showing respect for the Master, Jesus Christ. Paul wrote of the anointed ones: “He that was called when a freeman is a slave of Christ. You were bought with a price.” (1 Corinthians 7:22, 23; Ephesians 6:6) Therefore, when we loyally submit to the direction of the faithful slave and its Governing Body, we are submitting to Christ, the slave’s Master. Our showing due respect for the instrument Christ is using to manage his earthly belongings is one way in which we “openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”—Philippians 2:11.
13 Another Scriptural reason for showing respect for the faithful slave is that anointed Christians on earth are figuratively spoken of as a “temple” that Jehovah inhabits “by spirit.” As such, they are “holy.” (1 Corinthians 3:16, 17; Ephesians 2:19-22) It is to this holy temple class that Jesus has entrusted his earthly belongings, which means that certain rights and responsibilities within the Christian congregation belong exclusively to this collective slave. For this reason, all in the congregation view it as their sacred duty to follow and uphold the direction coming from the faithful slave and its Governing Body. Indeed, the “other sheep” count it a real privilege to assist the slave class in caring for the Master’s interests.—John 10:16.
***
Jesus clearly stated that He alone was the way to salvation.
(John 10:7-9) 7 Therefore Jesus said again: “Most truly I say to YOU, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All those that have come in place of me are thieves and plunderers; but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the door; whoever enters through me will be saved, and he will go in and out and find pasturage.
(John 14:6-7) 6 Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If YOU men had known me, YOU would have known my Father also; from this moment on YOU know him and have seen him.”
Jesus never said He or His Father would have an earthly, visible organization. In fact, as you mentioned, Jesus' kingdom is no part of this world, meaning that He did not have an earthly organization.
(John 18:36) . . .Jesus answered: “My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. . . .
so why would the Watchtower Society make the claim that they are 'God's sole mouthpiece' and that the reason for 'showing proper respect for the faithful slave class is that by so doing, we are in fact showing respect for the Master, Jesus Christ'?
Do you see how in that last statement they have demanded that you, Denice, give the Watchtower Society the same respect that you give to Jesus Christ?! That is a completely inappropriate demand to make of a fellow Christian.
Next let's move on to your next statement...
"Unfortunately, in society people rail against requirements of any sort, because it infringes on their "RIGHTS". No one wants to be held accountable for their behavior. Not much different from a small child who isn't getting his way. Well so sorry that's life, throughout society their are groups/organizations/clubs that have a code of conduct that if violated will cause the violater[sic] to be removed. If you don't agree with the code of conduct, go somewhere else."
This is another common assertion made by Jehovah's Witnesses that I talk to. The statement that
"throughout society their are groups/organizations/clubs that have a code of conduct that if violated will cause the violater[sic] to be removed"
is in itself a true statement, but it does not take all of the Watchtower Society's policies into account. I think a good parallel here is the case in Florida where an employee of Disney World sued for the right to wear a beard. Disney World prohibits its male employees from wearing beards because it scares a good number of children. The employee lost the case. That's where the historical part ends. Let's say that the employeee defiantly grew a beard. Well, we can assume that Disney World would fire this employee. Just as you say, they are an organization with a code and violators will be removed.
Now, lets draw this parallel out a little more. Let's say that Disney World sent out a memo to all of its employees and told them in no uncertain terms are any of them to associate with the employee that had been fired, even if they were close friends or family of the fired employee. If any employee insisted on associating with either employees that quit or employees that were fired, they too would be fired. Oh, one more thing. What if Disney World also sent out a memo that anyone who has been fired by Disney World will be killed by God at Armageddon.
This scenario is absurd! It is unthinkable that Disney World would demand that current employees not associate with former employees. It is also unthinkable that Disney World would claim that anyone who they fired would be killed by God.
Denise, do you see where your claim that is simply a case of 'removing violators' is not applicable to the policies of the Watchtower Society? As crazy as my Disney World scenario is, that is exactly what the Watchtower Society has been doing since 1939.
*** w59 3/15 p. 170 par. 18 Keeping Strict Watch on How We Walk ***
What a calamity it would be to be disfellowshiped from Jehovah’s congregation and suffer eternal destruction
***
*** w61 2/1 p. 72 Narrow Gate to Life ***
. All who will eventually gain everlasting life on earth under God’s kingdom must go over the highway of holiness. Since “the unclean one will not pass over it,” those who make a practice of sin are disfellowshiped
***
So the Watchtower Society gets to decide who is sinful and deserving of destruction? Isn't that Jesus' job?
*** w65 12/15 p. 751 par. 15 “We Should Not Neglect the House of Our God” ***
Disfellowshiping means the casting of a member out of God’s household; and if one should remain in this disfellowshiped condition till he died, it would mean his everlasting destruction as a person who is rejected by God. Staying away from meetings leads in that very direction
***
*** w81 9/15 p. 25 par. 23 Disfellowshiping—How to View It ***
a disfellowshiped or disassociated person who is trying to promote or justify his apostate thinking or is continuing in his ungodly conduct is certainly not one to whom to wish “Peace.” (1 Tim. 2:1, 2) And we all know from our experience over the years that a simple “Hello” to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?
***
So you see, Denise, your dedication to Jehovah is fine. You are no doubt a morally upright, spiritual, sincere Christian. However the Watchtower Society who has made itself a master over your faith (2 Corinthians 1:24) is responsible not only for going ahead of what is written by predicting when the end of this system would occur multiple times, but also for robbing you of your Christian freedom.
I was raised as an evangelist, thoroughly trained as a public speaker from near infancy... and I will die an evangelist. It's just that the good news I bring people now is that they no longer have to live under the shadow of the Watchtower Society. That being the case, I am never disappointed by an opportunity to present my case to you and the other readers.
Realizing how much control the Watchtower Society has over your life is not overcome by reading a single blog comment any more than allowing them to take that control happens after the first visit from Jehovah's Witnesses at your door.
Shawn, you certainly are the king of blog spamming.
I will have to agree with Denise again.
While you can copy and paste from online books, you do not understand them. Voting, in and of it self, does not equal violating neutrality.
Neutrality is usually associated with political parties. But much voting is not related to parties.
If someone voted for prop 8 in California, that is no violation of neutrality.
If someone voted for judges, which are not party based, that is not violating neutrality. If someone voted for or even ran for the position of drain commission or dog catcher, that is not violating neutrality. That is just a job.
You need to not copy and paste, but to understand the material.
Edward Albright said...
Shawn, you certainly are the king of blog spamming.
I will have to agree with Denise again.
While you can copy and paste from online books, you do not understand them. Voting, in and of it self, does not equal violating neutrality.
Neutrality is usually associated with political parties. But much voting is not related to parties.
If someone voted for prop 8 in California, that is no violation of neutrality.
If someone voted for judges, which are not party based, that is not violating neutrality. If someone voted for or even ran for the position of drain commission or dog catcher, that is not violating neutrality. That is just a job.
You need to not copy and paste, but to understand the material.
==================================
This position was changed only when individual countries threatened the legal status as a religion.
However, the message is the same.
*** w64 5/15 p. 308 par. 20 Maintaining Unity in Difficult Times ***
To mature Christians, the question of what attitude should be taken in the matter of political elections presents no issue. In totalitarian countries oftentimes people are forced by law to go to the election polls and sometimes persons are even picked up at home and brought to the polls. Even in certain democracies the law makes it compulsory for the citizens to go to the election places. In no country do Jehovah’s witnesses take part in politics. They are not of this world. (John 17:14) Therefore they do not take part in voting at elections. They do not compromise their neutral standing in matters of politics, however, if they go to the polls and make the ballot void in some manner, either by crossing it out or by putting down, for example, the words “For God’s Kingdom.” That is telling what he is for. By doing this their ballot will become void; it will not count in the election of a man. They have complied with the law and gone to the polls and likely avoided punishment.
***
As for Proposition 8, how can you say you are maintaining neutrality by voting either for or against it. This is a politically charged issue.
Judges definitely have a political position. That's why a president tries to get as many judges nominated to the supreme court who represent his political affiliation as possible.
Really, I think both you and Denise should go out and vote. It's the right thing to do.
I also understand that you do not want me to quote the Society's publications... but I have to ask why? Why is it bad for others to read when the 'faithful and discreet slave' has written. After all aren't they God's sole mouthpiece?
Your last sentence is telling.
"You need to not copy and paste, but to understand the material."
This is typical of high-control groups. By using loaded language, the printed material is read differently by members and nonmembers. Take for instance the term 'worldly'. NonJWs think this means that a person has been exposed to different cultures and is generally regarded as positive. To JWs, this means that the person is immersed in Satan's system of things.
*** w07 3/15 p. 10 Highlights From the Book of Jeremiah ***
In our time, to abandon the true God in favor of human philosophies and theories and worldly politics is to replace “the source of living water” with “broken cisterns.”
***
*** w07 3/15 p. 30 par. 17 Demons—How Can We Resist Them? ***
Rather than filling our minds with worldly goals and materialistic dreams, we should focus our thinking on our God-given hope, even as Jesus did.
***
*** w07 7/1 p. 14 Highlights From the Book of Ezekiel—I ***
Let us guard against forming worldly ties that can destroy our faith
***
Do a google search for "Loading the language" and see how many anti-cult pages you get. The bottom line is by loading the language with cliches like the term 'worldly', JWs 'read between the lines' and attach a connotation to whatever is being spoken about. When I comment on blogs, I give the readers the background on what is being said so that the reader is aware of what is actually being said.
Most JWs don't like that I share this information with those who are not in the 'in group' or people who have progressed into the organization enough to have accepted these control techniques through gradualism. It is important for people to realize in advance that these policies are in advance.
As for being 'the king of blog spamming'. This is a blog that exposes the control techniques and false predictions of the Watchtower Society. I do the same thing. You're entirely welcome to avoid the blogs I comment on, which is what the Watchtower Society wants you to do anyway.
Shawn,
There is no position to change.
People make choices.
Prop 8 was not politically charged, that was gays rights vs moral imposers. Jehovah's Witnesses do not use the law to impose their beliefs on others.
This is the reason why 6 years ago I voted for a democratic governor.
Judges are nominated by political parties but are non-partisan. I also vote for them. Voting is not joining the party.
Wikipedia defines Non-partisan democracy as (also no-party democracy) is a system of representative government or organization such that universal and periodic elections take place without reference to political parties.
Non-partisan elections are where
Government officials are not members of political parties,
Government policies are decided by a direct democracy,
Officials are chosen in nonpartisan elections, or
Nothing wrong or political with voting in that.
You then ask "I also understand that you do not want me to quote the Society's publications... but I have to ask why?"
I did not say that. I stated that you should understand the material rather than just quoting it. The fact that you do not understand the difference between theory and practice shows.
Then you state: This is typical of high-control groups."
But I have been showing you that there is no control at all in the group. I have voted in the past and personally I wanted Obama and other democrats to win over their opponents, but because I am a free person I don't get caught up in the ferver and consider them the messiah.
Thumbs up, Edward. (Denise takes off hat)
Shawn, the reference I made to Genesis, was comparing your statements to the serpent's (Devil's) calling God a liar. When you think of it, A dangerous place to be.
******
Next, you said,
"The statement that
"throughout society their are groups/organizations/clubs that have a code of conduct that if violated will cause the violater[sic] to be removed"
is in itself a true statement, but it does not take all of the Watchtower Society's policies into account."
*****
If you have advance to the point of dedication, the statement is TRUE. You know what is required and what stand the organization takes on matters. You still can choose not to be a part of it. It's those who already knew those standards and now don't want to abide by those standards that have the problem.
I still stand with my previous posts and I still think your accusations are laughable.
My mind is not changed and neither will my life.
Edward Albright said:
Then you state: This is typical of high-control groups."
But I have been showing you that there is no control at all in the group. I have voted in the past and personally I wanted Obama and other democrats to win over their opponents, but because I am a free person I don't get caught up in the ferver and consider them the messiah.
==================================
Whether or not you're allowed to vote is not the only point. The Watchtower Society is indeed running a high-control group. Take a look at this link that outlines the practices of high-control groups and compares them to the policies of the Watchtower Society.
Denise,
Your comment...
"Shawn, the reference I made to Genesis, was comparing your statements to the serpent's (Devil's) calling God a liar. When you think of it, A dangerous place to be."
...is exactly what I'm talking about here. I never called God a liar, I called the Watchtower Society liars. You see how you replaced 'Watchtower Society' with God? That is entirely by design.
I quoted the Watchtower in a previous post, but I'll remphasize it...
*** w07 4/1 p. 24 pars. 12-13 Loyal to Christ and His Faithful Slave ***
12 A fundamental reason for showing proper respect for the faithful slave class is that by so doing, we are in fact showing respect for the Master, Jesus Christ. Paul wrote of the anointed ones: “He that was called when a freeman is a slave of Christ. You were bought with a price.” (1 Corinthians 7:22, 23; Ephesians 6:6) Therefore, when we loyally submit to the direction of the faithful slave and its Governing Body, we are submitting to Christ, the slave’s Master. Our showing due respect for the instrument Christ is using to manage his earthly belongings is one way in which we “openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”—Philippians 2:11.
***
No group of humans on earth should demand the same respect that Jesus deserves!
*** w60 7/15 p. 439 par. 2 Staying Awake with the “Faithful and Discreet Slave” ***
The facts show that during this time and up to the present hour the “slave” class has served as God’s sole collective channel for the flow of Biblical truth to men on earth.
***
What facts? Certainly the many failed predictions for the end of this system do not support this claim. By declaring that they are the only means by which God speaks to all mankind, they are assuming the voice of God.
Next statement...
"If you have advance to the point of dedication, the statement is TRUE. You know what is required and what stand the organization takes on matters. You still can choose not to be a part of it. It's those who already knew those standards and now don't want to abide by those standards that have the problem."
That's true only if the organization has been completely transparent in their dealings with new recruits. This is not the case with the Watchtower Society who has covered up their list of predictions for the time of the end by blaming it on their own members. Then there's the issue of child indoctrination. Children as young as 9 have been baptized. A 9 year old child cannot make a dedication to God. If this child who 'has progressed to the point of dedication' later finds out about the failed prophesies and the subsequent cover-ups via the 'new light' technique, that person is faced with staying with the organization and being an accomplice to the dishonesty or disassociating and being shunned by family and friends. Often these people have no issue with Christian standards, the have an issue with the dishonesty.
I'm not here to change your mind specifically. I'm merely using your comments as a backdrop for pointing out the key issues for other readers. Also, you have a large portion of your life invested in this organization. The longer someone is in a cult the harder it is to break free.
Since you joined later on in the '70s, you missed the 1975 prediction. If you're anything like I was, you probably think that the prediction was made by a few rogue JWs. this is not the case however.
*** w68 8/15 pp. 500-501 par. 35 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
35 One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man’s existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the “day and hour”!
***
Then, in typical fashion, the Watchtower Society placed the blame on its members.
*** w80 3/15 p. 17 par. 6 Choosing the Best Way of Life ***
In its issue of July 15, 1976, The Watchtower, commenting on the inadvisability of setting our sights on a certain date, stated: “If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises.”
***
They were indeed 'wrong premises' that were handed down by the Watchtower Society. This was by no means the first time the Watchtower Society blamed their failed predictions.
Here's another quote from Three Worlds:
The seventy years captivity ended in the first year of Cyrus, which was B. C. 536. They therefore commenced seventy years before, or B. C. 606. Hence, it was in B. C. 606, that God’s kingdom ended, the diadem was removed, and all the earth given up to the Gentiles. 2520 years from B. C. 606, will end in A. D. 1914, or forty years from 1874; and this forty years upon which we have now entered is to be such “a time of trouble as never was since there was a nation.” And during this forty years, the kingdom of God is to be set up, (but not in the flesh, “the natural first and afterwards the spiritual),” the Jews are to be restored, the Gentile kingdoms broken in pieces “like a potter’s vessel,” and the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord and his Christ, and the judgment age introduced.
Russell believed that in the year 1914 human governments would cease to exist and Christ would rule. Again from the Three Worlds...
But I am not willing to admit that this calculation is even one year out. Not from dogmatism, for I am ready to admit that my opinion, or my reasoning, may be as faulty as that of many others; and if, in the present case, there was but this one argument, I should say, it is quite possible errors may be found arising in some unexpected quarter. But there is such an array of evidence. Many of the arguments, most of them, indeed, are not based on the year-day theory, and some of them, not
based even on the chronology; and yet there is a harmony existing, between them all. If you had solved a difficult problem in mathematics, you might very well doubt if you had not possibly made some error of calculation. But if you had solved that problem in seven different ways, all independent one of another, and in each and every case reached the same result, you would be a fool any longer to doubt the accuracy of that result. And this is a fair illustration of the weight of evidence that can be brought to bear on the truthfulness of our present position. Forty years, or now, about thirty-eight years before the times of the Gentiles end, is none too much time, for the accomplishment of the many wonderful events that must transpire during their continuance. If our calculation showed that they were to end this year, or even during this decade, doubts might well arise as to the possibility of this being true. But there seems to be time enough, since events move rapidly in this age of the world.
It wasn't entirely truthful that "At first, they thought that by that date the Kingdom of God would have obtained full, universal control." as it states in the Proclaimers book. The Watchtower Society clung to 1914 as marking the end of earthly governments even after 1914 had passed.
July 15, 1914 Watchtower
To my understanding the harvest of the Jewish age com-
menced in the fall of 29 A.D., and, being a period of forty
years, ended in the fall of 69 A.D. In the spring of 70 A.D.,
at the time of the Passover, the Roman army besieged Jerusa-
lem. The siege lasted about six months and ended in the fall
of 70 A.D. Thus the great calamity that our Lord foretold to
Jerusalem did not reach its worst until six months after the
end of the Jewish harvest, and continued about six months
thereafter, or one whole year after the end of the Jewish
harvest. This same period in antitype, if antitype it is, would
seem to be from April, 1915, to October, 1915. If there is any
significance in this it would seem that the burning of the
"tares" in the time of trouble will not take place until the
harvest is entirely ended.
Then, when it seemed clear that Christ was not going to swoop in and commandeer all human government, they didn't immediately conclude, as the Proclaimers book states, "that, instead, the date had marked only a starting point as to Kingdom rule", instead they blamed the early Bible students for expecting too much.
November 1, 1914 Watchtower
It may be that many of the Lord’s people were expecting
more than they should have looked for to occur with the open-
ing of the Jewish year 1915, which began with September 21.
The human mind seems to have a natural tendency, and one
with which we should have sympathy, to expect matters to
culminate more rapidly, fulfilments to come more suddenly,
than they ever do come.
According to the Watchtower, it wasn't failed prophesy, but the natural tendency of human minds to expect matters to culminate more rapidly. As if it had nothing to do with the fact that for forty years, the Watchtower had been printing that 1914 would mark the end of all human governments. Not only that but the date could not be even one year out!
Nonsense! This disappointment had nothing to do with individual, honest-hearted Jehovah's Witnesses expecting too much. These disappointed ones had every reason to be disappointed because they believed what the Watchtower Society wrote.
The Watchtower Society can't have it both ways. They cannot claim to be 'God's sole mouthpiece' and 'God's sole channel of communication' and then claim that they never said they were infallible. Even if you buy the line that since they are not infallible, so they're allowed to make these kinds of blatantly false predictions, you have to ask yourself - What else is the Watchtower Society saying today that will turn out to be blatantly false?
Shawn,
You say that the Watchtower Society is running a high control group.
Is that bad?
I heard today that the NFL is increasing control on its players that give bad name to the NFL. Players are being fined for misbehaving and there are restricted areas of cities that they can not go to. They want the players to be better rolemodels.
AA is a high control group. The people have sponsors that they check in with constantly. The result is to control themselves and not let alcohol control them.
The military is a high control group. Very high controls on how they dress and salute and procedures. What if they didn't have those controls and disciple? The military would be in bad shape. Discipline is needed to the the job done effectively.
Thus high control is not bad when it has a good purpose.
Christianity as a high control group? I don't see that as bad when the result is good. Producing better Christians.
Edward Albright said:
Shawn,
You say that the Watchtower Society is running a high control group.
Is that bad?
I heard today that the NFL is increasing control on its players that give bad name to the NFL. Players are being fined for misbehaving and there are restricted areas of cities that they can not go to. They want the players to be better rolemodels.
These players get paid millions of dollars in exchange for their concessions. Additionally, if they break the rules they are fined. The NFL doesn't require the offending players' friends and family to cease associating with them for months or years. The NFL doesn't prohibit their players from receiving life-saving medical treatment. The NFL doesn't claim to be the 'mouthpiece of God' so that when a player breaks a rule they are in line to be murdered by God.
AA is a high control group. The people have sponsors that they check in with constantly. The result is to control themselves and not let alcohol control them.
Alcoholics Anonymous has sponsors who are there for help and support. They are available for support, the sponsors don't park outside their house to see if they spend a night with a member of the opposite sex. (Something JW elders will do). AA sponsors do not claim to be 'God's sole channel of communication', predicting dates for the end of the world to keep members in line.
The military is a high control group. Very high controls on how they dress and salute and procedures. What if they didn't have those controls and disciple? The military would be in bad shape. Discipline is needed to the the job done effectively.
Military personel have to maintain a strict code while on duty. They are free to live their lives how they choose when on their own time. When a member of the military breaks the rules, they may have their pay suspended or have their rank downgraded, but they can still talk to their friends and family.
Thus high control is not bad when it has a good purpose.
None of these groups qualify as a high control group because they don't use cult control techniques which I list below.
Christianity as a high control group? I don't see that as bad when the result is good. Producing better Christians.
The result is not 'good'. It produces adherents to an organization and robs them of their Christian freedom and family ties. The Watchtower Society has added to the requirements of Christians just like the Pharisees did in the first century.
==================================
Exclusivism
A normal religious organization would not have any trouble with you moving to another similar organization as long as you stayed in that same religion. Because it is the belief system that matters, not membership in an organization. For example if you were a Christian then you could move from one church to another and still be a Christian.
However cult leaders will tell you can only be "saved" (or can only be successful) in their organization alone. No other organization has the truth, all others miss the mark. So it is not the belief system that decides your future, but it the belief system AND your membership with that particular group.
The cult leaders need to make you believe that there is no where else you can go and still be saved, and if you ever leave the "one true church" then you are going to hell. This is a fear based control mechanism designed to keep you in the cult. It also gives the cult leaders tremendous power over you. If you really believe that leaving the group equals leaving God (or means you are leaving your only chance to succeed in life), then you will obey the cult leaders even when you disagree with them instead of risking being kicked out of the group. Exclusivism is used as a threat, it controls your behavior through fear.
Be very suspicious of any group that claims to be better than all the others. A religious group may say that other groups following the same religion are OK, but they are the ones who have a better grasp of the truth and they are superior to the rest. This is often just a subtle version of exclusivism.
This is one of the practices that cults are often very deceptive about. For example, first off they may give you the impression that they think you are a true Christian, Buddhist or Muslim and it's not until later that their true position is revealed.
The Watchtower society claims to be 'God's sole mouthpiece' repeatedly in it's publications.
*** w67 10/1 p. 590 par. 19 Finding Freedom with Jehovah’s Visible Organization ***
19 Evidences are now conclusive that Jesus Christ was enthroned in heaven in 1914 C.E. and that he accompanied Jehovah to his temple in 1918 C.E., when judgment began with the house of God. (1 Pet. 4:17) After cleansing those belonging to this house who were alive on earth, Jehovah poured out his spirit upon them and assigned them the responsibility of serving as his sole visible channel, through whom alone spiritual instruction was to come. Those who recognize Jehovah’s visible theocratic organization, therefore, must recognize and accept this appointment of the “faithful and discreet slave” and be submissive to it.
Speaking of being submissive to the "faithful and discreet slave", we have the next technique...
Fear & Intimidation
Cult leadership is feared. To disagree with leadership is the same as disagreeing with God. The cult leaders will claim to have direct authority from God to control almost all aspects of your life. If the cult is not a religious group then questioning the leaders or program will still be seen as a sign of rebellion and stupidity.
Guilt, Character Assassination and Breaking Sessions. Guilt will be used to control you. Maybe the reason you're not making money is because you're not "with the programme". Maybe the reason you're not able to convert new recruits is because "your heart is prideful and full of sin". It could never be that the programme isn't working, or those new recruits have valid reasons for not joining. It's always your fault, you are always wrong, and so you must try harder! You will also be made to feel very guilty for disobeying any of the cult's written or unwritten rules.
Character Assassination is used to help create the guilt in you. Character Assassination is a type of false reasoning used by people and groups who have no real arguments. The technical name for Character Assassination is "The Ad hominem Fallacy". This is how it works. Imagine if you will a conversation between two men, Ford and Arthur…
"One plus one equals three", says Ford.
"No I don't think so. You see when I have one thing, and I have another thing, then I have two things not three", replies Arthur.
"I see your point, but what you must realize is that one plus one when calculated in relation to this complex number domain, which I just invented, and then squared by the sum of the ninth tangent in the sequence of the Fibonacci series results in three!", stated Ford triumphantly.
Ok, Ford is wrong, but that is not the point. The point is that Ford tried to answer Arthur's reasoning with more reasoning of his own. This is the healthy way people and groups debate subjects. Now lets see what would have happened if Ford had used Character Assassination…
"Arthur I have been a mathematician longer than you. How dare you disagree with me! You are obviously a very smug and prideful person. I think you are disagreeing with me because you are jealous of me, and to be honest with you Arthur your rebellion has really hurt me and a lot of other people too", stated Ford his face intimidatingly close to Arthur's.
You see Ford didn't answer Arthur's argument, instead he attacked his character. If you are not aware of how Character Assassination works then it is a powerful way to exert control over you.
Breaking sessions are when one, two or more cult members and leaders attack the character of another person, sometimes for hours on end. Some cults will not stop these sessions until their victim is crying uncontrollably.
If that last paragraph doesn't describe a judicial committee, then nothing does. No honest JW could say that they wouldn't be afraid to be called before a judicial committee. They go on for hours and the person under trial is asked extremely personal and intimate details. It very often ends in uncontrollable sobbing for the victim of this unscriptural practice.
Here's a quote from the Watchtower equating the governing body to the divine...
*** w07 4/1 p. 24 pars. 12-13 Loyal to Christ and His Faithful Slave ***
12 A fundamental reason for showing proper respect for the faithful slave class is that by so doing, we are in fact showing respect for the Master, Jesus Christ. Paul wrote of the anointed ones: “He that was called when a freeman is a slave of Christ. You were bought with a price.” (1 Corinthians 7:22, 23; Ephesians 6:6) Therefore, when we loyally submit to the direction of the faithful slave and its Governing Body, we are submitting to Christ, the slave’s Master. Our showing due respect for the instrument Christ is using to manage his earthly belongings is one way in which we “openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”—Philippians 2:11.
13 Another Scriptural reason for showing respect for the faithful slave is that anointed Christians on earth are figuratively spoken of as a “temple” that Jehovah inhabits “by spirit.” As such, they are “holy.” (1 Corinthians 3:16, 17; Ephesians 2:19-22) It is to this holy temple class that Jesus has entrusted his earthly belongings, which means that certain rights and responsibilities within the Christian congregation belong exclusively to this collective slave. For this reason, all in the congregation view it as their sacred duty to follow and uphold the direction coming from the faithful slave and its Governing Body. Indeed, the “other sheep” count it a real privilege to assist the slave class in caring for the Master’s interests.—John 10:16.
To disagree with the Watchtower Society is the same as disagreeing with God.
What about character assassination, does the Watchtower Society engage in that?
*** w84 5/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
Questions From Readers
? Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses decline to exchange their Bible study aids for the religious literature of people they meet?
Jehovah’s Witnesses carry on their public ministry in obedience to divine instructions. Jesus said that during this “conclusion of the system of things,” the “good news of the kingdom [must] be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:3, 14) So Witnesses do not go to people’s doors searching for truth or enlightenment. Rather, they already have devoted countless hours learning the truth from God’s Word and, having taken in the “good news,” they are obediently going forth to share it.
Many people who believe that ‘there is good in all religions’ might consider it narrow-minded to think otherwise. (Contrast Jesus’ view expressed at Matthew 7:13, 14, 21-23.) The Greek philosophers in ancient Athens encouraged such an “open-minded” attitude and enjoyed “telling something or listening to something new.” (Acts 17:18-21) But when the apostle Paul appeared before them, it was not to swap philosophies or ideas. He used the occasion to present what he knew to be the truth, whether he was considered narrow-minded or not. While some of those Athenians mocked him, a number responded and became believers.—Acts 17:32-34; 2 Corinthians 6:14-18.
Paul obviously was aware of some Greek teachings, and he used such knowledge to give a most effective witness. (Acts 17:28) Similarly, Jehovah’s Witnesses are not ignorant of others’ beliefs. They have gained considerable basic knowledge of the doctrinal beliefs of religions common in their area. Consideration to such teachings has been given in the book What Has Religion Done for Mankind? as well as numerous articles in The Watchtower and Awake! Such information on various religions is presented in the context of its contrast with accurate Biblical teachings.
God’s Word warns Christians that “Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works.” (2 Corinthians 11:14, 15) Satan so successfully appeared as “an angel of light” that he was able to deceive even a perfect human, Eve. (1 Timothy 2:14) So it would be foolhardy, as well as a waste of valuable time, for Jehovah’s Witnesses to accept and expose themselves to false religious literature that is designed to deceive. They have no intention of falling into the sad course of the Jews, whom Paul said “exchanged the truth of God for the lie.”—Romans 1:25, NW; Revised Standard Version.
Furthermore, some of the religious literature that people may urge Jehovah’s Witnesses to read is written by, or contains the thoughts of, individuals who have apostatized. True Christians are commanded to shun such apostates. (2 John 9-11; Titus 3:10, 11) Appropriately, then, The Watchtower of June 15, 1983, counseled:
“In the first century, Hymenaeus and Philetus turned apostate and tried to subvert the faith of others. God’s standard was: ‘Shun such empty speeches that violate what is holy.’ (2 Timothy 2:16-19) Christians holding to that standard would not have been interested in listening to apostates, nor in obtaining any poisonous writings that these might distribute ‘for the sake of dishonest gain.’ Why finance their wickedness by buying their literature? (Titus 1:11) As loyal Christians let us hold to God’s standards, feeding our minds on what is true and righteous, and holding appreciatively and loyally to the channel from which we first learned Bible truth.—Compare 1 Timothy 4:16.”—Page 15.
Hence, it is out of wisdom and respect for God’s counsel that Jehovah’s Witnesses do not make a practice of exchanging valuable Bible study aids containing Scriptural truth for religious literature that disseminates error or apostate views.
Notice how any other line of thinking is 'apostate', 'designed to deceive' and 'disseminates error'.
Love Bombing & Relationship Control
Cults know that if they can control your relationships then they can control you. Whether we like it or not we are all profoundly affected by those around us. When you first go to a cult they will practice "love bombing", where they arrange instant friends for you. It will seem wonderful, how could such a loving group be wrong! But you soon learn that if you ever disagree with them, or ever leave the cult then you will lose all your new "friends". This unspoken threat influences your actions in the cult. Things that normally would have made you complain will pass by silently because you don't want to be ostracized. Like in an unhealthy relationship love is turned on and off to control.
Cults also try to cut you off from your friends and family because they hate others being able to influence you. A mind control cult will seek to manoeuvre your life so as to maximize your contact with cult members and minimize your contact with people outside the group, especially those who oppose your involvement.
In line with this section on cults we have this article from the Watchtower designed to 'help' people stay away from their own family...
*** w06 9/1 pp. 17-21 When a Loved One Leaves Jehovah ***
When a Loved One Leaves Jehovah
MARK and Louise are Jehovah’s Witnesses. With love and care, they taught the Scriptures to their children, as the Bible exhorts Christian parents to do. (Proverbs 22:6; 2 Timothy 3:15) Sadly, not all of their children continued to serve Jehovah upon becoming young adults. “My heart aches for the children who strayed,” says Louise. “How can I pretend that it doesn’t hurt desperately from day to day? When others speak of their sons, my throat tightens up and I have to hold back tears.”
Yes, when a person chooses to leave Jehovah and the way of life set out in the Scriptures, faithful family members typically experience deep anguish. “I love my sister very much,” says Irene. “I would do anything to see her come back to Jehovah!” Maria, whose brother turned his back on Jehovah to pursue a course of immoral conduct, says: “This has been hard for me to bear because in every other respect, he has been a wonderful brother to me. I especially miss him at large family gatherings.”
Why Is It So Hard?
Why does the spiritual loss of a child or other loved one cause such deep distress to Christian relatives? Because they know that the Scriptures promise eternal life on a paradise earth for those who remain loyal to Jehovah. (Psalm 37:29; 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:3-5) They look forward to sharing these blessings with their mates, children, parents, siblings, and grandchildren. How it pains them to think that their loved ones who have stopped serving Jehovah may miss out! Even with regard to their present life, Christians appreciate that Jehovah’s laws and principles are for their benefit. Christians are therefore heartbroken to see their loved ones sow in such a way as to ensure a bitter harvest.—Isaiah 48:17, 18; Galatians 6:7, 8.
It may be difficult for some who have never experienced such a loss to appreciate just how devastating it can be. Virtually every aspect of life is affected. “It has become harder and harder to sit at Christian meetings and see parents laughing and talking with their children,” says Louise. “Any happy event is overshadowed by emptiness because of the ones missing.” One Christian elder recalls the four years during which his wife’s daughter cut off association with them. He says: “Often, even the ‘good times’ were difficult. If I gave my wife a gift or took her somewhere nice for a weekend, she would break down crying, remembering that her daughter did not share our happiness.”
Are such Christians overreacting? Not necessarily. In fact, they may to some extent be reflecting the qualities of Jehovah, in whose image man was made. (Genesis 1:26, 27) What does this mean? Well, how did Jehovah feel when his people Israel rebelled against him? From Psalm 78:38-41, we learn that Jehovah was hurt and pained. Yet, he patiently warned and disciplined them, forgiving them time and again upon their demonstrating repentance. Obviously, Jehovah feels a personal attachment to his creatures, ‘the work of his hands,’ and does not easily give up on them. (Job 14:15; Jonah 4:10, 11) He implanted in humans the capacity for having similar loyal attachments, and the bond between family members can be especially strong. So it is not surprising that humans would grieve over the spiritual loss of a beloved relative.
Indeed, the spiritual loss of a loved one is among the most difficult of trials that come upon true worshippers. (Acts 14:22) Jesus said that accepting his message would cause division in some families. (Matthew 10:34-38) This is not because the Bible message of itself causes family division. Rather, unbelieving or unfaithful family members cause a rift by rejecting, abandoning, or even opposing the way of Christianity. We can be thankful, however, that Jehovah does not leave his faithful ones without a means of coping with the trials that beset them. If you are presently sorrowing over the spiritual loss of a loved one, what Bible principles can help you endure the grief and find a measure of joy and contentment?
Coping
“By building up yourselves . . . , keep yourselves in God’s love.” (Jude 20, 21) Depending on your particular circumstances, it may be that there is nothing you can do at this time to help a family member who has stopped serving Jehovah. Nevertheless, you can and should build up yourself as well as any remaining faithful family members. Veronica, who saw two of her three sons leave the truth, says: “My husband and I were reminded that if we remain in a strong spiritual state, we will be in the best condition to welcome back our sons when they come to their senses. Where would the prodigal son have been if his father had not been in a condition to receive him back?”
To keep yourself in a strong condition, be absorbed in spiritual activities. This would include maintaining a schedule for deep Bible study and attending Christian meetings. Make yourself available to help others in the congregation to the extent that your circumstances allow. True, initially you may find such activities difficult. Veronica recalls: “My first instinct was to isolate myself like a wounded animal. But my husband insisted on our keeping a good spiritual routine. He made sure that we went to the meetings. When it was time to attend a convention, I needed a lot of courage to go and face people. Yet, the program drew us closer to Jehovah. Our son who had remained faithful was particularly built up by that convention.”
Maria, mentioned earlier, finds it especially helpful to stay busy in the field ministry and is presently helping four persons to learn about the Bible. Similarly, Laura says: “Although I still cry daily, I thank Jehovah that even if I have not had the success that some parents have had in raising children, I do have the Bible’s perfect message, which is able to help families in these last days.” Ken and Eleanor, whose adult children left the congregation, arranged their circumstances to move to an area where there is a greater need for Kingdom publishers and to pursue the full-time ministry. This has helped them keep matters in perspective and avoid being swallowed up by sorrow.
Do not give up hope. Love “hopes all things.” (1 Corinthians 13:7) Ken, mentioned above, says: “When our children left the way of the truth, I thought that it was like their death. But after my sister died, my view changed. I am grateful that my children are not literally dead and that Jehovah continues to leave the way open for them to return to him.” Indeed, experience has shown that many who have left the truth eventually do return.—Luke 15:11-24.
Resist self-blame. Parents especially may tend to look back and regret that they did not handle certain situations differently. However, the main thought conveyed at Ezekiel 18:20 is that Jehovah holds the sinner, not his parents, responsible for his wrong choice. Interestingly, while the book of Proverbs makes many comments about the parents’ obligation to bring up their children in the right way, it contains over four times as much counsel for young ones to listen to and obey their parents. Yes, children have the responsibility to respond to the Bible-based training of their imperfect parents. You likely handled matters as well as you could at the time. Still, even if you feel that you made certain mistakes and that these were indeed your fault, that does not necessarily mean that your mistakes caused your loved one to leave the truth. At any rate, there is nothing to be gained by indulging in “if onlys.” Learn from your mistakes, determine not to repeat them, and pray to Jehovah for forgiveness. (Psalm 103:8-14; Isaiah 55:7) Then look to the future, not the past.
Be patient with others. It may be hard for some to know just how to encourage or comfort you, especially if they have never had a similar experience. Besides, people differ as to what they consider encouraging and comforting. So if some say things that upset you, apply the apostle Paul’s counsel found at Colossians 3:13: “Continue putting up with one another and forgiving one another freely if anyone has a cause for complaint against another.”
Respect Jehovah’s arrangement for discipline. If your relative has received discipline from the congregation, remember that this is part of Jehovah’s arrangement and is in the best interests of all, including the wrongdoer. (Hebrews 12:11) Therefore, resist any inclination to find fault with the elders who were involved or the decisions they made. Remember, the best results come from doing things Jehovah’s way, whereas opposing Jehovah’s arrangements can only result in added distress.
After Israel’s deliverance from Egypt, Moses regularly served as judge. (Exodus 18:13-16) Since a judgment in favor of one individual would probably have been against another, it is not hard to imagine that some were disappointed by Moses’ decisions. Finding fault with Moses’ judgments perhaps contributed to some instances of rebellion against his leadership. However, Jehovah was using Moses to lead His people, and He punished, not Moses, but the rebels and their families who supported them. (Numbers 16:31-35) We can learn from this by striving to respect and cooperate with decisions made by those with theocratic authority today.
In this regard, Delores recalls how difficult it was for her to maintain a balanced view when her daughter was disciplined by the congregation. “What helped me,” she says, “was to read over and over again articles dealing with the reasonableness of Jehovah’s arrangements. I made a special notebook of points from talks and articles that would help me to bear up and carry on.” This leads to another important means of coping.
Express your feelings. You may find it helpful to confide in one or two understanding friends who have your trust. In doing so, select friends who will help you to maintain a positive attitude. It will certainly be most effective to “pour out your heart” in prayer to Jehovah. (Psalm 62:7, 8) Why? Because he fully understands the depth of what you are feeling. For example, you may feel that it is unfair that you should have to experience such emotional anguish. After all, you did not leave Jehovah. Commit your feelings to Jehovah, and ask him to help you view the situation in a less painful way.—Psalm 37:5.
With the passing of time, you will likely be better able to manage your feelings. Meanwhile, do not give up in your efforts to be pleasing to your heavenly Father, and never feel that these are in vain. (Galatians 6:9) Remember, if we were to leave Jehovah, we would still have problems. On the other hand, by remaining loyal to him, we have his help with the trials we face. Be assured, then, that Jehovah appreciates the magnitude of your situation and will continue to give you needed strength at the right time.—2 Corinthians 4:7; Philippians 4:13; Hebrews 4:16.
Have You Left Jehovah?
If so, whatever the reason, your relationship with Jehovah and your eternal prospects are at risk. Perhaps you intend to return to Jehovah. Are you vigorously pursuing this now? Or are you putting it off until “the right time”? Remember, the storm clouds of Armageddon are swiftly approaching. Moreover, life in this system is short and uncertain. You cannot know if you will even be alive tomorrow. (Psalm 102:3; James 4:13, 14) One man who was diagnosed with a terminal illness said: “This illness caught me serving Jehovah full-time, with no skeletons in my closet. And that’s a good feeling to have right now.” Imagine, though, how he would have felt if his illness had caught him saying, “Someday, I will return to Jehovah!” If you have left Jehovah, now is the best time to return.
This type of relationship control is horribly damaging to families involved and entirely unnecessary. Simply rejecting the doctrines of the Watchtower Society means that a person will have to also give up their JW friends and family.
Information Control
Those who control the information control the person. In a mind control cult any information from outside the cult is considered evil, especially if it is opposing the cult. Members are told not to read it or believe it. Only information supplied by the cult is true. One cult labels any information against it as "persecution" or "spiritual pornography", another cult calls it "apostate literature" and will expel you from the group if you are caught with it. Cults train their members to instantly destroy any critical information given to them, and to not even entertain the thought that the information could be true.
Common sense tells us that a person who does not consider all information may make an unbalanced decision. Filtering the information available or trying to discredit it not on the basis of how true it is, but rather on the basis of how it supports the party line, is a common control method used throughout history.
The Watchtower Society is very vocal about information control...
*** w97 4/15 p. 30 Do You Eat Well Spiritually? ***
Spiritual Contamination
Besides the threat of spiritual starvation, there is another danger we need to be aware of—the type of food that we eat may itself be contaminated. Taking in teachings infected by dangerous demonic ideas can poison us just as easily as can eating physical food that has been tainted with germs or toxins. (Colossians 2:8) It is not always easy to spot poisonous food. “Food,” says one authority, “may sometimes appear quite wholesome and yet harbour pathogenic bacteria.” So we do well to examine the source of our figurative food, bearing in mind that some literature, such as apostate writings, may be infected by the introduction of unscriptural teachings and philosophies. Some food manufacturers even use misleading labeling to deceive their customers as to the contents of their product. We certainly can expect Satan, the great deceiver, to do the same. Make sure, therefore, that you get such figurative food from a reliable source, so that you stay “healthy in the faith.”—Titus 1:9, 13.
*** w94 7/1 p. 12 par. 12 At Which Table Are You Feeding? ***
12 Yes, apostates publish literature that resorts to distortions, half-truths, and outright falsehood. They even picket Witness conventions, trying to trap the unwary. Hence, it would be a dangerous thing to allow our curiosity to move us to feed on such writings or to listen to their abusive speech! While we might not think it a risk for us personally, the hazard remains. Why? For one thing, some of the apostate literature presents falsehoods by means of “smooth talk” and “counterfeit words.” (Romans 16:17, 18; 2 Peter 2:3) What would you expect from the table of demons? And while the apostates may also present certain facts, these are usually taken out of context with the goal of drawing others away from the table of Jehovah. All their writings simply criticize and tear down! Nothing is upbuilding.
Not all criticism is bad... especially when the organization being criticized has so much to hide. The Watchtower Society has no problem criticizing others as 'false prophets' or 'false religion' but when someone criticizes them they claim 'persecution'.
The Watchtower Society also consistently vilifies the internet...
*** km 1/03 p. 1 par. 3 Living Up to Our Dedication ***
3 As in the case of Jesus, we must “oppose the Devil.” (Jas. 4:7) Satan tempted Jesus following His baptism, and he similarly targets dedicated servants of Jehovah today. (Luke 4:1-13) Being surrounded by Satan’s world, we must exercise self-discipline, avoiding anything that could contaminate our mind or corrupt our heart. (Prov. 4:23; Matt. 5:29, 30) Christians are admonished that they “cannot be partaking of ‘the table of Jehovah’ and the table of demons.” (1 Cor. 10:21) This requires that we guard against unwholesome entertainment, bad associations, and dangers on the Internet. It also calls for our shunning apostate material. Being alert to these and other tactics of Satan will help us to live up to our dedication.
*** km 7/07 p. 3 Question Box ***
It is easy for a person whom we meet over the Internet to be deceptive about his identity, his spirituality, or his motives. (Ps. 26:4) An individual claiming to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses may actually be an unbeliever, a disfellowshipped person, or even an active apostate. (Gal. 2:4) Reportedly, many pedophiles use such Web sites to find their victims.
*** w06 1/1 p. 27 par. 10 Seeking Righteousness Will Protect Us ***
10 Moreover, propaganda promoting immorality seems to be everywhere. Movies and television programs suggest that it is perfectly acceptable for young people to have sex before marriage. Homosexual relationships are depicted as normal. And many shows depict increasingly graphic sex. Pictures of graphic sex are also easily accessible on the Internet. For instance, a newspaper columnist reported that his seven-year-old son came home from school and excitedly told his father that a school friend had come across an Internet site showing naked women performing sex acts. The father was horrified, but how many children have come across such sites without telling their parents? In addition, how many parents know the contents of the video games their children play? Many popular games feature disgusting immorality, as well as demonism and violence.
*** w06 1/15 p. 23 par. 13 Do Not Allow Place for the Devil ***
13 Because of listening to the Devil and not rejecting his lies, the first human pair apostatized. So, then, should we listen to apostates, read their literature, or examine their Web sites on the Internet? If we love God and the truth, we will not do so. We should not allow apostates into our homes or even greet them, for such actions would make us ‘sharers in their wicked works.’ (2 John 9-11) May we never succumb to the Devil’s wiles by abandoning the Christian “path of truth” to follow false teachers who seek to “introduce ruinous ideologies” and try to ‘exploit us with well-turned phrases.’—2 Peter 2:1-3, Byington.
I'll stop quoting here, but you get the idea. The warnings go beyond the reasonable warning for parents and link the internet with apostates and demons.
Reporting Structure
In a mind control cult like in Nazi Germany or Communist Russia you must be careful of what you say and do; "The walls have ears". Everyone is encouraged to watch out for "struggling" brothers and sisters and report what they see to leadership. Often information given in deepest confidence is automatically reported to leadership. Cult leaders will then use this information to convince their members that they have a supernatural link, the trusting member does not suspect the very natural mechanism behind the supernatural revelations they are given.
People in a mind control cult will also hide their true thoughts and feelings, and instead wear a mask which presents them as a perfect cult member. This mask is a defense against being reported to leadership and being punished for not measuring up (cult members never feel like they measure up to the cult's ideals, and yet often believe the other members around them do, when in reality the others feel the same as them). Hence cult members are trained not only to deceive outsiders, but also to deceive their fellow cult members. Rarely can close friendships form in cults, and if they do the cult's leaders may see them as a threat and move those people away from each other. Nothing is allowed that can be more powerful than the cult members' allegiance to the group and it's leaders.
Here again from the Watchtower...
*** w97 8/15 p. 27 Why Report What Is Bad? ***
In our day too, Jehovah’s servants can become involved in serious wrongdoing, even those who have been faithful for many years. Recognizing that the elders can assist, most take the initiative to approach them for help. (James 5:13-16) But sometimes a wrongdoer may try to cover up his sin, as did King David. What should we do if we come to know about serious wrongdoing in the congregation?
Whose Responsibility Is It?
When elders learn about serious wrongdoing, they approach the individual involved to give needed help and correction. It is the elders’ responsibility to judge such ones inside the Christian congregation. Keeping a close watch on its spiritual condition, they assist and admonish anyone who is taking an unwise or wrong step.—1 Corinthians 5:12, 13; 2 Timothy 4:2; 1 Peter 5:1, 2.
But what if you are not an elder and you come to know about some serious wrongdoing on the part of another Christian? Guidelines are found in the Law that Jehovah gave to the nation of Israel. The Law stated that if a person was a witness to apostate acts, sedition, murder, or certain other serious crimes, it was his responsibility to report it and to testify to what he knew. Leviticus 5:1 states: “Now in case a soul sins in that he has heard public cursing and he is a witness or he has seen it or has come to know of it, if he does not report it, then he must answer for his error.”—Compare Deuteronomy 13:6-8; Esther 6:2; Proverbs 29:24.
Though not under the Mosaic Law, Christians today can be guided by the principles behind it. (Psalm 19:7, 8)
So JWs are under obligation to report 'wrongdoing' to the leadership.
Time Control
Mind control cults keep their members so busy with meetings and activities that they become too busy and too tired to think about their involvement.
Time control also helps the cult keep their members immersed in the manufactured cult environment.
And time control helps keep cult members away from friends and family.
Notice this from one of the articles above which gave advice to JWs on how to avoid members of their own family who don't agree with the Watchtower Society's doctrine... "Maria, mentioned earlier, finds it especially helpful to stay busy in the field ministry"
Recruiting Techniques
They tell you that they are not a cult.
This is a preemptive strike against the warnings from friends and family members which they know will come. In fact some cults go as far to tell you that Satan will try and dissuade you by sending family members and friends to tell you it is a cult. When this tactic is used then often a warped form of logic occurs in the recruits' mind, the "agents of Satan" do come and tell them that it is a cult. So since the group predicted that would happen, the group therefore must true! Basically if any group tells you that they are not a cult, or that some people call them a cult, then for goodness sake find out why!
Here's an example of the Watchtower instructing JWs on how not to sound like they are in a cult...
*** w02 8/15 p. 18 par. 10 “Follow Me Continually” ***
For example, if someone wants to know why you do not take part in some unscriptural custom or practice, do not be satisfied with saying, “It’s against my religion.” Such an answer may suggest that you let others make your decisions for you and that you must therefore be a member of a cult.
*** w01 2/15 p. 20 Seek Jehovah Before the Day of His Anger ***
God’s Enemies—Take Note!
11 While we await the day of Jehovah’s anger upon this wicked system, we “meet with various trials.” (James 1:2) In a number of lands claiming to value freedom of worship, manipulative clergymen have used their influence with the secular authorities in order to bring vicious persecution upon God’s people. Unscrupulous men slander Jehovah’s Witnesses, branding them “a dangerous cult.” God is aware of their actions—and these will not go unpunished
Why is the Watchtower Society so hot under the collar about being labeled a cult? If they weren't a cult, these claims would be easily brushed aside or even be viewed as a joke.
*** w01 10/15 p. 14 par. 10 Who Will Separate Us From God’s Love? ***
Some opposers have spread slanderous lies in the media, even falsely accusing Jehovah’s Witnesses of being a dangerous cult.
*** w99 12/1 p. 9 par. 1 “Glad Tidings” From the Apocalypse ***
CONTRARY to the accusations against them, Jehovah’s Witnesses are not an “apocalyptic sect” or a “doomsday cult.”
*** w97 6/1 p. 6 Secrecy in the Name of the Lord ***
If it ever crossed your mind that Jehovah’s Witnesses might be a secret cult or sect, that was likely because you knew too little about them.
...or maybe you knew too much about them.
In any event, the Watchtower Society spends quite a bit of space telling people how they are not a cult and it is a good idea to investigate exactly why people are accusing the Watchtower Society of running a cult.
Key Warning Signs
* People always seeming constantly happy and enthusiastic. Especially if you discover that they have been told to act that way for the potential new recruits.
* Instant friends.
* If you are told who you can or cannot talk to or associate with.
* Say they are the only true group, or the best so why go anywhere else.
* Experiential rather than logical.
* Some cults travel door to door during times when women are home alone. They, and this is rather sexist, think that women are easier to recruit and once they have the woman then it will be easier to snare the husband or partner.
The Watchtower Society recognizes this last point. Women make up more than half of those going door-to-door and the Watchtower has printed many articles about women who have worn their husbands down to the point where they join.
*** w91 7/1 pp. 16-17 pars. 11-12 “Women Who Are Working Hard in the Lord” ***
11 Within the Christian congregation today, there are many Christian women who are “working hard in the Lord.” In fact, statistics show that “the women telling the good news are a large army,” making up the major part of the army of Witnesses that Jehovah is using in this time of the end. (Psalm 68:11) These hardworking Christian women have earned a fine name for themselves as they struggle to fulfill their role of wives, mothers, homemakers, breadwinners, as well as Christian ministers.
12 A number of these fine sisters have unbelieving husbands. They have to cope with this situation 24 hours a day. Some have been struggling for years to be good wives while meeting the requirements for loyal servants of Jehovah. It has not been easy, but they have endured, always hoping that their husbands “may be won without a word” through their fine Christian conduct. And what joy is shared in by the entire family when such a husband responds! (1 Peter 3:1, 2) Meantime, these faithful sisters certainly need the brotherly affection and the prayers of the other members of the congregation. Even as “the quiet and mild spirit” that they try to show is “of great value in the eyes of God,” so their steadfast integrity is precious in our eyes.—1 Peter 3:3-6.
*** w06 2/1 p. 14 Jehovah Helped Me to Find Him ***
As I progressed spiritually, I came to appreciate Jehovah’s view of the sacredness of marriage, including the Bible principle found at 1 Corinthians 7:13, which says: “A woman who has an unbelieving husband, and yet he is agreeable to dwelling with her, let her not leave her husband.” This scripture prompted me to go back to Alec.
Returning to Derby
I arrived back in Derby on June 21, 1979, after having been away from my husband for more than five years. Of course, I had mixed feelings and wondered how he would react to my return. To my surprise, he was delighted that I came back to him, though he expressed some disappointment that I had become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. He immediately suggested that I attend his church, the one I had attended before I left for Perth. I explained that I could not do that. I tried hard to respect his headship and did my best as a Christian wife. I attempted to talk to him about Jehovah and His wonderful promises for the future, but he was unresponsive.
In time, though, Alec not only accepted my new way of life but also began helping me financially so that I could attend conventions and assemblies, as well as the weekly meetings. I was very grateful when he purchased a car—a valuable asset in this remote part of Australia—for me to use in the Christian ministry. Brothers and sisters, including the circuit overseer, often stayed for several nights at our place. This enabled Alec to get to know various Witnesses, and he seemed to like their company.
*** w03 11/1 p. 11 par. 15 Women Who Made Jehovah’s Heart Rejoice ***
15 Such fine qualities are especially important for a woman with an unbelieving husband who pays little or no heed to Bible principles. Perhaps he drinks to excess. Hopefully, such men will change their ways. Many have done so—often in response to the mild manner, deep respect, and chaste conduct of their wives.—1 Peter 3:1, 2, 4.
*** w00 6/15 p. 14 par. 12 Honor the Ones Given Authority Over You ***
Peter here emphasized the importance of a wife’s being in subjection to her husband with “deep respect,” even though some husbands may do little to deserve such respect. A wife’s respectful attitude may win the heart of her unbelieving husband.
*** w99 1/1 p. 19 par. 17 “Make Your Hearts Firm” ***
A sister in Japan showed her unbelieving husband the video Jehovah’s Witnesses—The Organization Behind the Name, and he was moved to have a regular Bible study. After watching United by Divine Teaching, he wanted to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The three-part series entitled The Bible—A Book of Fact and Prophecy helped him to apply Bible principles in his life. Finally, Jehovah’s Witnesses Stand Firm Against Nazi Assault showed him that Jehovah strengthens His people against Satan’s attacks. The man was baptized in October 1997.
*** w96 8/1 pp. 18-19 par. 13 “Become Holy Yourselves in All Your Conduct” ***
13 Elders and ministerial servants can sometimes help by getting to know the unbelieving husband on a social level. In this way he may see that Witnesses are normal, decent people with a wide range of interests, including subjects other than the Bible. In one case, an elder took an interest in a husband’s fishing hobby. It was enough to break the ice. That husband eventually became a baptized brother. In another case, an unbelieving husband was fascinated by canaries. The elders were not defeated. One of them studied the subject so that the next time he met the man, he could open a conversation on that husband’s pet subject! Being holy, therefore, does not mean being straitlaced or having a one-track mind.—1 Corinthians 9:20-23.
The number of accounts such as the ones above are staggering. It is part of the Watchtower Society's strategy and it often works.
Find Out More
The Internet should be your first stop if the group you are interested in or involved with has an international scope. Most of the larger cults will be mentioned by counter-cult organizations like Cultwatch, and commonly many ex-members will have posted their cult involvement stories on the net.
Many of the larger cults hate the net since it allows their members access to information they deem subversive or evil. A good place to start is www.CULTWATCH.com, there we have cult information and links to other counter-cult groups. Also go to the search engines and type in keywords associated with the group, like the name of the group, the leaders or founders name, the titles of books they use and any peculiar words that the group uses. If the group is new or too small to have been exposed on the net then read stories of other people who were in mind control cults. The patterns may seem familiar to you. If you are still unsure then email us your story at cultwatch@cultwatch.com, we will let you know of any thoughts we have.
Other ways…
Old publications by the group. Often the older cults have predicted the end of the world or changed their beliefs significantly, hence their older publications become a danger to them. For some of the older cults people have produced books of photo copies of these changes
Shawn,
You wrote a 104 kilobyte message and put your propaganda in it. It seems that you are the cult.
JWs don't require families and friends to cease association. Those who choose righteousness choose not to associate with those not in righteousness. JWs don't prohibit life-saving medical treatment, they just choose no blood. And whether people call themselves God's mouthpiece, does not affect this issue. The fact is that they the NFL is controlling the players' conduct and that is not a bad thing.
You say that JW elders will spy on others as to whether they have illicit relations with others. Is that bad? Then you go back on the God's mouthpiece thing. You can't stay on topic.
Actually military people are not free to live their lives how they choose on their own time. There are zones in cities and businesses that they are not allowed to visit if they are on the base's disapproved list. Why is talking to one's family so important? If one breaks the rules, one could be jailed and not able to associate with society.
"because they don't use cult control techniques which I list below."
So your definition is what counts? You sound high control yourself.
Well Done, Edward, I enjoyed reading your points. Glad to see there is straight thinkers out there.
But, Do you smell the rubber burning from Shawn's tires spinning round and round, but going nowhere?????? The frenzy is tiring.
So sad.
Edward Albright said:
Shawn,
You wrote a 104 kilobyte message and put your propaganda in it. It seems that you are the cult.
Well, if you can show me how I'm applying cult control techniques, you might have an argument. See how I don't resort to immediate labeling and name calling? I offer evidence and let the reader decide instead of just declaring something propaganda. Weighing the evidence - try it sometime.
JWs don't require families and friends to cease association.
*** w81 9/15 p. 25 par. 23 Disfellowshiping—How to View It ***
And we all know from our experience over the years that a simple “Hello” to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?
...
If the elders saw him heading in that direction by regularly keeping company with a disfellowshiped person, they would lovingly and patiently try to help him to regain God’s view. (Matt. 18:18; Gal. 6:1) They would admonish him and, if necessary, ‘reprove him with severity.’ They want to help him remain ‘in God’s holy mountain.’ But if he will not cease to fellowship with the expelled person, he thus has made himself ‘a sharer (supporting or participating) in the wicked works’ and must be removed from the congregation, expelled.
***
Yes, it's true. If the Watchtower Society decides to expel a person. Active JWs cannot talk to them at the risk of being expelled themselves.
It's not a choice, Edward. It's right there in your own literature.
Those who choose righteousness choose not to associate with those not in righteousness. JWs don't prohibit life-saving medical treatment, they just choose no blood.
Again, not true. From the elder's manual, Pay Attention... to the Flock...
***
Uphold Jehovah's Righteousness
Wrongdoing is increasing in frequency and in depravi-
ty; such can infiltrate and affect the Christian congrega-
tion . (2 Tim . 3 :1-5, 13 ; Jude 3, 4, 11-13)
The Scriptures clearly show that Jehovah forbids certain
conduct among his clean people ; brothers need to up-
hold Jehovah's righteous standards regarding the follow-
ing:
...
Failure to abstain from blood . (Gen . 9 :4 ; Acts 15 :20,
28,29)
***
It's not a choice. If you choose to accept a blood transfusion, you will be expelled.
And whether people call themselves God's mouthpiece, does not affect this issue.
It actually does make a difference that the NFL doesn't claim to be God's mouthpiece. They have not put themselves between Christians and God the way the Watchtower Society has.
The fact is that they the NFL is controlling the players' conduct and that is not a bad thing.
If a player leaves the NFL, the NFL doesn't require all other NFL members to avoid all association with the player that has left, unlike the Watchtower Society.
You say that JW elders will spy on others as to whether they have illicit relations with others. Is that bad? Then you go back on the God's mouthpiece thing. You can't stay on topic.
Actually, you're avoiding the topic. Alcoholics Anonymous has sponsors who are there for help and support. They are available for support, the sponsors don't park outside their house to see if they spend a night with a member of the opposite sex. (Something JW elders will do). AA sponsors do not claim to be 'God's sole channel of communication', predicting dates for the end of the world to keep members in line.
There's the difference between AA sponsors and the Watchtower Society's control techniques.
Actually military people are not free to live their lives how they choose on their own time. There are zones in cities and businesses that they are not allowed to visit if they are on the base's disapproved list.
That isn't blanketly true for all enlisted people. The restrictions are only placed when absolutely necessary. If an enlisted person chooses not to reenlist, the military doesn't tell them that God will murder them if they are not 'repentant' and reenlist.
Why is talking to one's family so important?
Really? Is that a serious question? I'll let the other readers decide whether being able to talk to your family is important.
If one breaks the rules, one could be jailed and not able to associate with society.
You can still have visitors.
"because they don't use cult control techniques which I list below."
So your definition is what counts? You sound high control yourself.
That's not my definition. It's a standard definition used by people who help cult victims. Really, look it up. The mechanics of cults are well known.
Denise said...
Well Done, Edward, I enjoyed reading your points. Glad to see there is straight thinkers out there.
But, Do you smell the rubber burning from Shawn's tires spinning round and round, but going nowhere?????? The frenzy is tiring.
So sad.
==================================
No comment on my last response to you, Denise? Are you unable to defend your faith and the spirit-directed organization you belong to?
Or is it that the Watchtower Society's claims and policies are indefensible?
It's not surprising. When faced with evidence, cult victims will often resort to name calling and off topic diversions.
Edward prefers to offer anecdotes about Alcoholics Anonymous and the NFL instead of actually addressing the policies of the Watchtower Society and you seem to prefer to not address the issue at all.
When others read this thread, they can see my claims backed up with evidence. When they read your responses all they get are ad hominem attacks and things someone heard about the NFL.
Again I should remind you. this blog is not here to tickle your ears. It's for those who are trying to get the facts about this very invasive, controlling organization that claims divine backing in spite of a long list of failed predictions and the application of the same techniques cults use.
If there are lots of people calling an organization a cult - Find out why.
Your baiting and condescending tone do not work.
I feel no need to debate your tirade, just as Jesus did not get involved in debates. When attacked by the Scribes and Pharisees, he made his point and moved on to those who were receptive to his message.
Assumptions made about me, but stated as fact by you, let me know early on that a reasonable dialogue would not be possible here. Then the frenzy with which you post, just paints a picture of a very troubled soul.
And I sincerely feel sorry for you.
Since 1969, I have known that I found the truth and still know that fact. My mind and my life remains loyal to Jehovah.
I wish you peace.........
Notice how Denise doesn't actually address the issues. She merely makes comments about my character (ad hominem)
Denise, in response to your claim that Jesus did not get involved with debates with the Scribes and the Pharisees, I give you this passage from the book of Matthew:
(Matthew 21:23-22:46) 23 Now after he went into the temple, the chief priests and the older men of the people came up to him while he was teaching and said: “By what authority do you do these things? And who gave you this authority?” 24 In reply Jesus said to them: “I, also, will ask YOU one thing. If YOU tell it to me, I also will tell YOU by what authority I do these things: 25 The baptism by John, from what source was it? From heaven or from men?” But they began to reason among themselves, saying: “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will say to us, ‘Why, then, did YOU not believe him?’ 26 If, though, we say, ‘From men,’ we have the crowd to fear, for they all hold John as a prophet.” 27 So in answer to Jesus they said: “We do not know.” He, in turn, said to them: “Neither am I telling YOU by what authority I do these things. 28 “What do YOU think? A man had two children. Going up to the first, he said, ‘Child, go work today in the vineyard.’ 29 In answer this one said, ‘I will, sir,’ but did not go out. 30 Approaching the second, he said the same. In reply this one said, ‘I will not.’ Afterwards he felt regret and went out. 31 Which of the two did the will of [his] father?” They said: “The latter.” Jesus said to them: “Truly I say to YOU that the tax collectors and the harlots are going ahead of YOU into the kingdom of God. 32 For John came to YOU in a way of righteousness, but YOU did not believe him. However, the tax collectors and the harlots believed him, and YOU, although YOU saw [this], did not feel regret afterwards so as to believe him. 33 “Hear another illustration: There was a man, a householder, who planted a vineyard and put a fence around it and dug a winepress in it and erected a tower, and let it out to cultivators, and traveled abroad. 34 When the season of the fruits came around, he dispatched his slaves to the cultivators to get his fruits. 35 However, the cultivators took his slaves, and one they beat up, another they killed, another they stoned. 36 Again he dispatched other slaves, more than the first, but they did the same to these. 37 Lastly he dispatched his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 On seeing the son the cultivators said among themselves, ‘This is the heir; come, let us kill him and get his inheritance!’ 39 So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. 40 Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those cultivators?” 41 They said to him: “Because they are evil, he will bring an evil destruction upon them and will let out the vineyard to other cultivators, who will render him the fruits when they become due.” 42 Jesus said to them: “Did YOU never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone that the builders rejected is the one that has become the chief cornerstone. From Jehovah this has come to be, and it is marvelous in our eyes’? 43 This is why I say to YOU, The kingdom of God will be taken from YOU and be given to a nation producing its fruits. 44 Also, the person falling upon this stone will be shattered. As for anyone upon whom it falls, it will pulverize him.” 45 Now when the chief priests and the Pharisees had heard his illustrations, they took note that he was speaking about them. 46 But, although they were seeking to seize him, they feared the crowds, because these held him to be a prophet. 22 In further reply Jesus again spoke to them with illustrations, saying: 2 “The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man, a king, that made a marriage feast for his son. 3 And he sent forth his slaves to call those invited to the marriage feast, but they were unwilling to come. 4 Again he sent forth other slaves, saying, ‘Tell those invited: “Look! I have prepared my dinner, my bulls and fattened animals are slaughtered, and all things are ready. Come to the marriage feast.”’ 5 But unconcerned they went off, one to his own field, another to his commercial business; 6 but the rest, laying hold of his slaves, treated them insolently and killed them. 7 “But the king grew wrathful, and sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 Then he said to his slaves, ‘The marriage feast indeed is ready, but those invited were not worthy. 9 Therefore go to the roads leading out of the city, and anyone YOU find invite to the marriage feast.’ 10 Accordingly those slaves went out to the roads and gathered together all they found, both wicked and good; and the room for the wedding ceremonies was filled with those reclining at the table. 11 “When the king came in to inspect the guests he caught sight there of a man not clothed with a marriage garment. 12 So he said to him, ‘Fellow, how did you get in here not having on a marriage garment?’ He was rendered speechless. 13 Then the king said to his servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and throw him out into the darkness outside. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.’ 14 “For there are many invited, but few chosen.” 15 Then the Pharisees went their way and took counsel together in order to trap him in his speech. 16 So they dispatched to him their disciples, together with party followers of Herod, saying: “Teacher, we know you are truthful and teach the way of God in truth, and you do not care for anybody, for you do not look upon men’s outward appearance. 17 Tell us, therefore, What do you think? Is it lawful to pay head tax to Caesar or not?” 18 But Jesus, knowing their wickedness, said: “Why do YOU put me to the test, hypocrites? 19 Show me the head tax coin.” They brought him a de‧nar′i‧us. 20 And he said to them: “Whose image and inscription is this?” 21 They said: “Caesar’s.” Then he said to them: “Pay back, therefore, Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.” 22 Well, when they heard [that], they marveled, and leaving him they went off. 23 On that day Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came up to him and asked him: 24 “Teacher, Moses said, ‘If any man dies without having children, his brother must take his wife in marriage and raise up offspring for his brother.’ 25 Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and deceased, and, not having offspring, he left his wife for his brother. 26 It went the same way also with the second and the third, until through all seven. 27 Last of all the woman died. 28 Consequently, in the resurrection, to which of the seven will she be wife? For they all got her.” 29 In reply Jesus said to them: “YOU are mistaken, because YOU know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God; 30 for in the resurrection neither do men marry nor are women given in marriage, but are as angels in heaven. 31 As regards the resurrection of the dead, did YOU not read what was spoken to YOU by God, saying, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob’? He is the God, not of the dead, but of the living.” 33 On hearing [that], the crowds were astounded at his teaching. 34 After the Pharisees heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they came together in one group. 35 And one of them, versed in the Law, asked, testing him: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.” 41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together Jesus asked them: 42 “What do YOU think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him: “David’s.” 43 He said to them: “How, then, is it that David by inspiration calls him ‘Lord,’ saying, 44 ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet”’? 45 If, therefore, David calls him ‘Lord,’ how is he his son?” 46 And nobody was able to say a word in reply to him, nor did anyone dare from that day on to question him any further.
He did in fact, respond to the Scribes and Pharisees and defended His position until they were unable or unwilling to continue questioning Him.
Then Jesus went further and pointed out to His disciples how these religious leaders had burdened people with unnecessary and unjust rules and regulations. He pointed out how these religious leaders had put themselves between the people and God.
This is exactly what the Watchtower Society has done to millions of honest hearted Christians across the globe.
You wish me peace. You got your wish. I wish you Christian freedom. The freedom to practice your faith without the unnecessary and unscriptural rules and policies set out by a group of men claiming to be the sole mouthpiece of God.
Wow, Shawn can quote a block of the Bible, but does he understand it?
Back on topic.
The fact is that the Williams sisters and any other Witnesses can vote if they want to. But as a religion or a people JWs don't get involved in politics.
Look at what is happening with the Mormons. They campaigned for prop 8 in California. Now they are under attack for getting involved in politics. But if an individual decided to vote one way or another privately then it is not an issue.
So one needs to understand the difference. Individuals are free to do what they want, but the religion as a whole has a certain presence that it maintains. That is where the Mormons failed. And they are reaping what they sowed.
Shawn can't discern between the two.
Edward Albright said...
So one needs to understand the difference. Individuals are free to do what they want, but the religion as a whole has a certain presence that it maintains. That is where the Mormons failed. And they are reaping what they sowed.
Shawn can't discern between the two.
==================================
If this is the case then how do you explain the following?
*** w64 5/15 p. 308 par. 20 Maintaining Unity in Difficult Times ***
20 To mature Christians, the question of what attitude should be taken in the matter of political elections presents no issue. In totalitarian countries oftentimes people are forced by law to go to the election polls and sometimes persons are even picked up at home and brought to the polls. Even in certain democracies the law makes it compulsory for the citizens to go to the election places. In no country do Jehovah’s witnesses take part in politics. They are not of this world. (John 17:14) Therefore they do not take part in voting at elections.
This is not talking about the Society as an organization. This is talking about individual Jehovah's Witnesses. You're not fooling anyone Mr. Albright. The Watchtower Society has a definite position as to whether Jehovah's Witnesses should vote in elections. They've softened their official position so that they're allowed to maintain their status as an official religion in some countries. However, the message is clear.
"This is not talking about the Society as an organization. This is talking about individual Jehovah's Witnesses."
That was in 1964 when there were political issues as that was during the cold war as it said totalitarion countries.
Did you actually read the whole article? Even the one prior titled "The Unity of God's family"
There is a heading called "No Dictatorship" It states that God's Kingdom is not a dictatorship and the New World Society of Jehoah's witnesses is none either. It states "The dictator ulres by compulssion; Jehovah God appeals to the free and good will of honest persons"
" The Watchtower Society has a definite position as to whether Jehovah's Witnesses should vote in elections. They've softened their official position so that they're allowed to maintain their status as an official religion in some countries. However, the message is clear."
What was stated in 1964 may not be the case today. But when they state that "Therefore they do not take part in voting at elections." it is good to include the rest "They do not compromise their neutral standing in matters of politics".
That is what is important, not the voting itself. You focus on actions and not the principles.
I would suggest you read the whole articles and especially paragraph 21 about principles.
So the fact is that this blog is wrong in that the Watchtower Society does not force anything on anyone. Jehovah's Witnesses is not a dictatorship.
Edward Albright said:
"This is not talking about the Society as an organization. This is talking about individual Jehovah's Witnesses."
That was in 1964 when there were political issues as that was during the cold war as it said totalitarion countries.
Did you actually read the whole article? Even the one prior titled "The Unity of God's family"
There is a heading called "No Dictatorship" It states that God's Kingdom is not a dictatorship and the New World Society of Jehoah's witnesses is none either. It states "The dictator ulres by compulssion; Jehovah God appeals to the free and good will of honest persons"
What was stated in 1964 may not be the case today. But when they state that "Therefore they do not take part in voting at elections." it is good to include the rest "They do not compromise their neutral standing in matters of politics".
That is what is important, not the voting itself. You focus on actions and not the principles.
I would suggest you read the whole articles and especially paragraph 21 about principles.
So the fact is that this blog is wrong in that the Watchtower Society does not force anything on anyone. Jehovah's Witnesses is not a dictatorship.
==================================
Yes, this is classic Watchtower Society double-speak. They talk about how they're not a dictatorship, but then tell their members how to apply the principals.
It's true that the Watchtower Society doesn't 'force' anyone to do anything, but disobedience to the leadership results in harsh punishments like disfellowshipping.
"but disobedience to the leadership results in harsh punishments like disfellowshipping."
That simply is not true.
Edward Albright said:
"but disobedience to the leadership results in harsh punishments like disfellowshipping."
That simply is not true.
===================================
You can claim that my assertion is 'simply not true', but you actually haven't offered any evidence to support your claim. I'm going to counter your argument with evidence.
What happens if one of Jehovah's Witnesses disagrees with their unscriptural policy against blood transfusions and chooses to get one? Let's look at the list of reasons a person should be disfellowshipped. From the elder's manual...
Failure to abstain from blood . (Gen . 9 :4 ; Acts 15 :20,
28,29)
Oops - That JW gets shunned.
What happens when one of Jehovah's Witnesses decides (correctly) that, even though it's a health risk, there is no scriptural prohibition on tobacco and chooses to have a cigar?
Misuse of tobacco or addictive drugs . (2 Cor . 7 : 1 ; Mark
15 :23 ; Rev . 21 :8, Int . ; 22 :15, Int.)
Oops, shunned again.
What if one of Jehovah's Witnesses disagrees with anything that the Watchtower Society has laid out as doctrine for Jehovah's Witnesses? Let's look at the elder's manual again...
Apostasy .
Apostasy is a standing away from, a falling away, defec-
tion, rebellion, abandonment ; it involves teaching false
doctrines, supporting or promoting false religion and its
holidays or interfaith activities. (Deut . 13 :13, 15 ; Josh.
22 :22, ftn . ; Acts 21 :21, ftn. ; 2 Cor. 6 :14, 15, 17, 18 ;
2 John 7, 9, 10 ; Rev . 18 :4)
Those with sincere doubts should be helped, dealt with
mercifully . (Jude 22, 23 ; w82 9/1 pp . 20-1 ; w80 8/1
pp . 21-2)
Apostasy includes action taken against true worship of
Jehovah or his established order among his dedicated
people . (Jer . 17 :13 ; 23 :15 ; 28 :15, 16 ; 2 Thess . 2 :9, 10)
Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and
speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught
by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates .
Yikes! That's a pretty broad brush there. Any disagreement with what the Watchtower Society has told Jehovah's Witnesses to believe makes the dissenter an apostate who will be disfellowshipped.
So, yeah disobedience to the leadership results in harsh punishments like disfellowshipping.
"Failure to abstain from blood . (Gen . 9 :4 ; Acts 15 :20,
28,29)
Oops - That JW gets shunned."
Yes, not following scriptures should cause the congregation not to want to associate with that one.
"Misuse of tobacco or addictive drugs . (2 Cor . 7 : 1 ; Mark
15 :23 ; Rev . 21 :8, Int . ; 22 :15, Int.)
Oops, shunned again."
People shun smokers not because what it says in that book but because they stink. There is a commercial that talks about passing gass. When people fart, people shun that one. The same with smoking. They pass gas and people shun them because they stink.
Cleanliness is next to godliness.
"one of Jehovah's Witnesses disagrees with anything that the Watchtower Society has laid out as doctrine for Jehovah's Witnesses? "
That is not true. People are not shunned because they don't agree with anything that the WTS teaches.
Your quoting from books written decades ago does not prove your point, but proves that you do not understand the principles behind them.
Edward Albright said:
"Failure to abstain from blood . (Gen . 9 :4 ; Acts 15 :20,
28,29)
Oops - That JW gets shunned."
Yes, not following scriptures should cause the congregation not to want to associate with that one.
The scriptures against consuming blood are telling Christians to avoid ritualistic drinking of blood, not refusing a life-saving medical treatment. If a blood transfusion is the same as drinking blood, then why aren't organ transplants cannibalism? They are both tissue transplants.
"Misuse of tobacco or addictive drugs . (2 Cor . 7 : 1 ; Mark
15 :23 ; Rev . 21 :8, Int . ; 22 :15, Int.)
Oops, shunned again."
People shun smokers not because what it says in that book but because they stink. There is a commercial that talks about passing gass. When people fart, people shun that one. The same with smoking. They pass gas and people shun them because they stink.
There's no Watchtower Society prohibition against stinky people. are you trying to be clever?
People who pass gas aren't shunned by their family and friends for months and sometimes years until a group of men decide they should be allowed to talk to them again.
Cleanliness is next to godliness.
"one of Jehovah's Witnesses disagrees with anything that the Watchtower Society has laid out as doctrine for Jehovah's Witnesses? "
That is not true. People are not shunned because they don't agree with anything that the WTS teaches.
I just showed you that they are. You can say it's not true all you want, but the fact remains that if one of Jehovah's Witnesses disagrees with what the Watchtower Society tells them to believe, they are disfellowshipped for 'promoting a sect'.
Your quoting from books written decades ago does not prove your point, but proves that you do not understand the principles behind them.
Why was the book even written? People are still disfellowshipped today for all of those reasons. It has nothing to do with 'principles'. It has everything to do with unscriptural control of their members. Jesus never disfellowshipped anyone.
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